Refund Points - Guild Wars Forums

RPG Monkey · May 10, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Is the refund point system still in operation? The reason I ask is because I read somewhere that they should show up on one of the tabs in atrributes window.

They aren't shown in mine so I wondered if it had been phased out in an update.

KiRi · May 10, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38

They dont exist anymore, you can change attributes freely now...but only in towns and such.

dargon · May 10, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04

That said, ANet did goof it a little when they made the factions manual. To me it looks like they took a big chunk of the 'how the game works' section from the original manual, changed the images to factions images and went with it, cause the manual mentions refund points

Swinging Fists · May 10, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04

Yeah, the manual also leads you to believe that a MM can control a dozen or more minions, which you can no longer do.

RPG Monkey · May 10, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59

That's awesome news, thanks guys!

dargon · May 10, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53

Yeah, however the MM change was only in the last couple weeks, refund points were removed from the game on Sept 7 of last year.

unda dawg · May 11, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

That said, ANet did goof it a little when they made the factions manual. To me it looks like they took a big chunk of the 'how the game works' section from the original manual, changed the images to factions images and went with it, cause the manual mentions refund points

i tihnk they rushed the release of factions. they shood have waited longer and found/fixed the bugs.

dargon · May 11, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32

Like I and many others have said several times now, finding and fixing all the bugs in a program of this size and nature is impossible. There's just too many combinations and skills and characters as well as other things people can do to test them all. Look at it this way, with just Ritualist and Assassin skills available to you, no res sig, no cap sig, etc, just 150 skills, you have

150*149*148*147*146*145*144*143 =
211970764029024000

different skill bars, by different, I mean skill bar order

divide by 8 to get the number of unique skill bars based on content, not order

26496345503628000

how long do you think it would take a group of 120 people to test that?

Lets say it takes 30 seconds to test 1 bar. With 120 people, that's 240 skill bars / hour

26496345503628000 / 240 =
110401439598450 hours =
4600059983268.75 days =
12594277846 years (approx)

Start adding more people and the time drops but the cost rises. Eventually you'll reach a point with a feasable amount of time, but you'll be employing roughly the 4 time the US population, (295734134 people), and you're still at 10 years time. And that's just to test the possible skill builds.

Now obviously some builds are going to be junk as nobody will EVER use them, so the number would drop a bit more, but you get the point.

Edge Martinez · May 11, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30

Yeah, but you forget that game companies only hire the best and brightest ner... folks, so in reality it only takes:

12594277846 years (approx)

divided by (number of anime movies watched in the last year)

= approx. 3.14 seconds

Faer · May 11, 2006, 07:37 AM // 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

Yeah, but you forget that game companies only hire the best and brightest ner... folks, so in reality it only takes:

12594277846 years (approx)

divided by (number of anime movies watched in the last year)

= approx. 3.14 seconds

You sir, are incorrect. The correct answer is not Pi. It is, in fact, 42.

Yes. That's right. 42.

Edit: Meh, confused this thread with another, but still... Good riddance to refund points!

Ishmaeel · May 11, 2006, 10:48 AM // 10:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by unda dawg

i tihnk they rushed the release of factions. they shood have waited longer and found/fixed the bugs.

...so that you could post your off-topic blubber about the delay; in threads that were not about delays but inaccuracy of printed guides.

Laden Swallow · May 11, 2006, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

divide by 8 to get the number of unique skill bars based on content, not order

Incorrect

8 skills available for the first slot
7 " " 2nd " "
6 " " 3rd " "

etc.

Means you have to divide by 8! (8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1) not just 8.

This means:

26496345503628000

becomes:

5257211409450

2 skill combinations per minute per person would mean:

1 person:
5257211409450/2 minutes
5257211409450/(2*60) hours
5257211409450/(2*60*24) days

If we had 120 people:

5257211409450/(2*60*24*120) days ~ 42000 years significantly lower than 12 billion (~age of the universe :S) but still high in terms of lifetimes.

Former Ruling · May 11, 2006, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

That said, ANet did goof it a little when they made the factions manual. To me it looks like they took a big chunk of the 'how the game works' section from the original manual, changed the images to factions images and went with it, cause the manual mentions refund points

*Reads Attribute Section of Manual*

No Mention of Refund Points...

It even says... "You can adjust your attributes at any time as long as you are in a town or outpost.....If your warrior finds a great sword but you have pumped up his use of axes through Axe Mastery...You can simply go into any town or outpost and put those points in Swordsmanship"

Rough quote there.

Caelus The Fallen · May 11, 2006, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Like I and many others have said several times now, finding and fixing all the bugs in a program of this size and nature is impossible. There's just too many combinations and skills and characters as well as other things people can do to test them all. Look at it this way, with just Ritualist and Assassin skills available to you, no res sig, no cap sig, etc, just 150 skills, you have

150*149*148*147*146*145*144*143 =
211970764029024000

different skill bars, by different, I mean skill bar order

divide by 8 to get the number of unique skill bars based on content, not order

Actually, divide by 8!, not 8.
150C8 = 150!/142!8! = 150*149*148*147*146*145*144*143/(8*7*6*5*4*3*2*1)

Former Ruling · May 11, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24

BTW, in the calculations (havent read all of yalls), some are erronously factoring in that placement on the skillbar matters - but placement on the skillbar has no barring - its WHAT skills are on the bar and what order USED in that makes the difference, not what order they appear on the bar.

dargon · May 11, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30

Actually, I did both, I did goof it in that it should have been 8! not 8 that I divided by. Besides, how dod you know that position has no bearing, perhaps cleave in skill bar position 7 can format your harddrive.

dargon · May 11, 2006, 12:32 PM // 12:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Former Ruling

*Reads Attribute Section of Manual*

No Mention of Refund Points...

It even says... "You can adjust your attributes at any time as long as you are in a town or outpost.....If your warrior finds a great sword but you have pumped up his use of axes through Axe Mastery...You can simply go into any town or outpost and put those points in Swordsmanship"

Rough quote there.

Of course I didn't note the exact page, and now I can't find it

Former Ruling · May 11, 2006, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by dargon

Actually, I did both, I did goof it in that it should have been 8! not 8 that I divided by. Besides, how dod you know that position has no bearing, perhaps cleave in skill bar position 7 can format your harddrive.

Because all the positions act the same. A skill in the first, or 8th position is does the same thing when activated.

To make it any different would require them to go back and change the core programming most probably, which is hardly ever touched in any game unless they make a core change in how the game plays. (You might not know, but most games have a "core" code that almost never changes, and all things like monster info, skill info, area info, etc are stored seperately so they are more easily changed without rewriting parts of the core file) And even if it was, it would be a direct action from someone on the team, you cant just mistakingly make Cleave in position 7 format the harddrive.

Actually, the only time that bug could appear wtihout it being on propose, is when the game is actually already doing something to the hardrive, like uninstalling/etc (Now That bug HAS happened, games have been recalled because when uninstalled they bug and delete the entire C drive)

May 10, 2006, 04:37 PM // 16:37	#1
RPG Monkey Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Bison Lovers International Profession: W/Mo	Refund Points Is the refund point system still in operation? The reason I ask is because I read somewhere that they should show up on one of the tabs in atrributes window. They aren't shown in mine so I wondered if it had been phased out in an update.

May 10, 2006, 04:38 PM // 16:38	#2
KiRi Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: May 2005 Location: Canada Guild: Grenths Rejects [GR]	They dont exist anymore, you can change attributes freely now...but only in towns and such.

May 10, 2006, 05:04 PM // 17:04	#3
dargon Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Seraphim Knights [TSK] Profession: R/	That said, ANet did goof it a little when they made the factions manual. To me it looks like they took a big chunk of the 'how the game works' section from the original manual, changed the images to factions images and went with it, cause the manual mentions refund points

May 10, 2006, 07:04 PM // 19:04	#4
Swinging Fists Wilds Pathfinder Join Date: Mar 2006 Profession: W/Mo	Yeah, the manual also leads you to believe that a MM can control a dozen or more minions, which you can no longer do.

May 10, 2006, 07:59 PM // 19:59	#5
RPG Monkey Pre-Searing Cadet Join Date: May 2006 Guild: Bison Lovers International Profession: W/Mo	That's awesome news, thanks guys!

May 10, 2006, 10:53 PM // 22:53	#6
dargon Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Seraphim Knights [TSK] Profession: R/	Yeah, however the MM change was only in the last couple weeks, refund points were removed from the game on Sept 7 of last year.

May 11, 2006, 05:32 AM // 05:32	#8
dargon Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Seraphim Knights [TSK] Profession: R/	Like I and many others have said several times now, finding and fixing all the bugs in a program of this size and nature is impossible. There's just too many combinations and skills and characters as well as other things people can do to test them all. Look at it this way, with just Ritualist and Assassin skills available to you, no res sig, no cap sig, etc, just 150 skills, you have 150149148147146145144*143 = 211970764029024000 different skill bars, by different, I mean skill bar order divide by 8 to get the number of unique skill bars based on content, not order 26496345503628000 how long do you think it would take a group of 120 people to test that? Lets say it takes 30 seconds to test 1 bar. With 120 people, that's 240 skill bars / hour 26496345503628000 / 240 = 110401439598450 hours = 4600059983268.75 days = 12594277846 years (approx) Start adding more people and the time drops but the cost rises. Eventually you'll reach a point with a feasable amount of time, but you'll be employing roughly the 4 time the US population, (295734134 people), and you're still at 10 years time. And that's just to test the possible skill builds. Now obviously some builds are going to be junk as nobody will EVER use them, so the number would drop a bit more, but you get the point.

May 11, 2006, 06:30 AM // 06:30	#9
Edge Martinez Jungle Guide Join Date: May 2005 Location: NC Guild: DKL	Yeah, but you forget that game companies only hire the best and brightest ner... folks, so in reality it only takes: 12594277846 years (approx) divided by (number of anime movies watched in the last year) = approx. 3.14 seconds

May 11, 2006, 11:24 AM // 11:24	#15
Former Ruling Grotto Attendant Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Cedartown, Georgia Profession: R/	BTW, in the calculations (havent read all of yalls), some are erronously factoring in that placement on the skillbar matters - but placement on the skillbar has no barring - its WHAT skills are on the bar and what order USED in that makes the difference, not what order they appear on the bar.

May 11, 2006, 12:30 PM // 12:30	#16
dargon Furnace Stoker Join Date: May 2005 Guild: The Seraphim Knights [TSK] Profession: R/	Actually, I did both, I did goof it in that it should have been 8! not 8 that I divided by. Besides, how dod you know that position has no bearing, perhaps cleave in skill bar position 7 can format your harddrive.